if small ships aren't affected as much, especially if they land in the same ranges after this change, will you admit small corps with less than ten characters don't really have any business committing to capital holes?

I disagree with the assertion that the proposed change is an advantage to larger groups.

The current dominate single meta of everyone flying the same doctrine (armor t3s) is what advantages the larger group. As if both sides have more or less the same fleet comp the weight of isk, skill points and most of all fleet size are inescapably the dominant factors on who wins. Hence the larger fleet will almost always win if they are both flying the same doctrine.

Elsewhere in eve there is more of a rock - paper - scissors where each fleet has its prey and is predators. The exceptions to that rule (ishtars and supers) are where the system breaks apart, but in general there is a lot more variation in fleet doctrines and that often matters more than just raw size.

This probably seems a bit off topic so let's bring it back in and ask ourselves why wormholes are different and compress down to so frw doctrines. I believe the answer to that is simply the wormhole mechanics. When you spawn deep in scram/web range it is obvious that brawling will reign.

This proposed change could change that as it might be possible to get an assault frig gang or a nano gang or a sniper gang successfully through the hole if the spawns are a bit further out. As such with this change we might have options where a smaller gang could successfully run through a larger gang and that proves my point that this could be really good for the little guy. Or at least the little guys that will fight whatever they can find. There is no helping the ones that insist on avoiding combat. By enabling more metas this is an advantage to numerically smaller gangs as we demonstrated that the single meta is heavily in favor of raw numbers.

Obviously we need to see the development blog and associated numbers before knowing for sure as that will make or break the deal.

If you need to snap shut a WH so fast that a Dictor/HIC is going to land inside that time, shouldn't there be risk involved in that? Right now it's fleet jumps out, fleet jumps back and unless someone gets a freak bump or the WH gods throw you outside jump range you're fully safe.

But was the ability for players to manipulate mass mechanics ever a design decision or was it a way to limit fleet/ship sizes to encourage small gangs?

So here my 2 Cents to this Topic.
First sorry for my english.

So in the frist time i get negative Feelings for this idea but after some time i see the possibilities.
Please don't make the mistake to think only in the C5 / C6 World.
I think people in the lower WH will have more chance to get kills.

Rember the HS Wormholes, if you don't like what you see, you jump back to HS.
So with these change you will have the chance to shoot down the Pilot from HS.
Dual Web on the Ship and he will never get back into jump range in time.

Same at other WHs. You don't have to wait that the pilot jump back. Web him.
So I think the Change will most effect Cap Pilots, and not so much people who use BS to close.

If CCP change the income lvl from WH to a lvl where more people go to WH space, it will be more interesting for PVP.
So don't think so negative, think about the possibilities ......

Greatings from Austria .

Facts:

Anything else and i would just be speculating or giving you my personal opinion... But one thing i'm looking forward to is being able to kill people on a HS wormhole before they can get in jump range.

To be fair, something like this is already in place in k-space with gates, which is what WHs essentially are. Changing it by mass it ********, but spawning not immediately within jump range isn't the end of the world.

Yes WHs are meant to be different than k-space, and you're all special unique flowers, but you may get more beneficial results by accepting that this will go into the game and start trying to lobby for either a flat spawn distance (~5-12km) or to greatly decrease the amount that mass affects spawn distance.

So I read it most though the thread. In the end I do agree with a change but I do not agree with current implementation. What I think is that CCP and CSM should get more varied feedback in the form of talking to wspace community. It would be great to get game designers and some major wspace movers on same comms and just to see what happens.

My personal opinion is that this change is neither good or bad. It is more of a shakeup of wspace.

TLDR: Wspace talk to the devs, try to channel your opinions through the sources you got avialible.

Look I have to agree, I support the mass/distance change but combined with the removal or polorization I have to wonder what will be next and with CCP's track record I am going to get on the concerned bandwagon


I think we need to see a devblog pretty damn soon.

I'm not sure thus will make nano/frig games more possible. Honestly if (as it sounds likely) a cruiser is coming out 15+/-5km from the wormhole this makes armor gangs even stronger. Massive spread of points and reps will be able to hit everyone. I think a nano gang is too likely to come in relatively closer to the wh (because of lower mass vs an equal ship size) and end up tackled and humped by the armor gang.

I'm assuming that the current sisi is something like 40km cap, 30km battleship, 20km bc, 15 km cruiser. If these numbers get moved down a bit more it just screws nano gangs even more.